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128487-massivly-f2p-announcement-discussion-thread
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Donatelli said on twitter there was a series of interviews, so this is just the first, be pacient young padawan i understand a serie more than 2, dont know how carbine see it but surelly dont be just 1 Edited June 25, 2015 by Chillia | |} ---- a new Arena. and rethinking your build. or roll an alt and enjoy bathing in the crowd. Edited June 25, 2015 by Avatar111 | |} ---- ---- I doubt it would be really hard to make veteran versions of all the story instances (including the new ones) and putting them in the shiphand que, or make another tab for "Story Instances" with Omnicore in there as well Edited June 25, 2015 by GorenKillChua | |} ---- Yeah, this is a bit weird to me, too. Sprint speed is too fast for moving around in a lot of places (especially housing)... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- uh... the stats were not "complex". they were "obtuse". now.. you worry me! to explain myself: you basically only had to boost 1 stat until soft cap, then another stat forever until you reach second half of the last raid in the game. how was that "complex" ? it was so complex that people showcasing their builds on WSbuilder or other places were not even including the Gear in the build's description as basically there was only 1 viable option (it might have only been 1 stat: item level. and it would have been the same as now!) it was THAT complex. *end sarcasm do not mix complexity with obtusity. be smarter than that. they are not dumbing down the game, they are making it more varied, more deep, more about choices. the current stat system was a joke. i fully hope the new revamp will get rid of the linear stat grind and set the ground for more choices and options aka: build diversity. Edited June 25, 2015 by Avatar111 | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Not sure where I read it, but I seem to recall hearing that there would be another Drop before the F2P transition. Dang if I can find it again ... | |} ---- Hmmm, I've heard the opposite on their announcements and some twitch chats I think, that F2P patch will be the next drop. Maybe something changed meanwhile? | |} ---- Honestly, I'm not going to shoot them if they take their time doing this, especially if that's what it takes to listen to the community and reverse some of the poor decisions it sounds like they are making. Or at least give us some time and an opportunity for feedback to see how this stuff is going to play out. | |} ---- All they said was that it would not just be F2P but also a content drop. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I could bet a few plats that such "always-on sprint" will be a toggle. Can be wrong, but an always on sprint will probably ruin a lot of non-combat content. | |} ---- The dungeon changes are mostly aimed at the normal versions. I spoke about it at length already in this thread. If you have any other questions, let me know. To clarify a bit from the articles, though: Stormtalon is staying level 20, not becoming level 15--Kel Voreth is jumping up to 25 and Swordmaiden is dropping to 40. There will not be a dungeon every 5 levels (10, 20, 25, 35, 40). However, if you include the adventures and shiphands, there will be group content available throughout the leveling process pretty much from level 6 on. Alpha Sanctum is not a dungeon. It is a short story instance similar to the Drusera instances that are on live now. Edited June 25, 2015 by Timetravel | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- How will the restrictions announced stop guilds from moving from other games? | |} ---- That makes sense. I think that puts the progression of group content (not counting shiphands) as: Protogames Academy -> Hycrest -> Stormtalon -> WotW -> KV -> Tempest Refuge -> Skullcano -> Swordmaiden -> Malgrave Trail If I'm remembering my level ranges right.... Edited June 25, 2015 by Coldin | |} ---- This is all great, btw. | |} ---- This makes a lot more sense than what Massively reported. >_< But... Alpha Sanctum. Forced-solo instance? ;_; Stop that, Carbine. | |} ---- ---- ---- Article says all gear will be re-itemized. I'm not sure how they will decide whether or not the finesse on a piece of gear should be assault power or crit, but presumably they have some way...? | |} ---- It's probably not hard except for items that have equal stats. That is, if an item has more finesse than brut or moxie, finesse will probably convert to AP. | |} ---- It takes the F2P from F2P, will have lots trying Wildstar for the first time when F2P hits....and the first thing you see if want to keep your old community is a pay wall. Not really talking about guilds making a complete jump tbh, it's the not really interested , don't know anything about the game community that won't pay the $15. Wildstar will need those players, if they enjoy the game they will support it. Edited June 25, 2015 by ministabber | |} ---- ---- well.. aside from the very few people that are halfway thru datascape... i wouldn't be worried about the stat changes for anybody else. i mean, how can they screw up... everybody is currently only maxing 1 stat... AP just put that on base gear in accordance to the ilvl and put all the secondary stats on the runeslots (rune slots should not have main stats like ap/sp/health/armor, runeslots should only be for secondary stats). for the top end players (maybe 50 peeps?) they will have to be a bit more crafty, but not much considering how the only thing they have at the moment is "more AP"... Edited June 25, 2015 by Avatar111 | |} ---- then i see the drawback on having that active when leveling as an "always on" dazed also if i havent toggle it on i can use sprint as a resource like we do now when out of combat (this will reduce my fears of you killing the racing in wildstar) Edited June 25, 2015 by Demonmanu | |} ---- All indicators say the next PTR update will be an invitation beta. Makes me wish I hadn't waited a week hoping to see an answer to my question about whether current subscribers were automatically on the invite list. I've signed up but unless they decide to pick people I don't expect to be in anytime soon. | |} ---- Or just have the guild give some in-game change to the Guild Leader so he can buy a CREDD as fast as he can and form the guild. | |} ---- Yes. with that word the devs game me tranquility, now to see if drop 6 is a worthy sucessor of drop 5 and drop 4 Edited June 25, 2015 by Demonmanu | |} ---- ---- ---- remember things start slowly, we had 300 max decors first, then 1k, now we are arising into 2k. so maybe they will try to go into 5 first then probe their luck on 10 without lagging and in some future we will see 20 | |} ---- ---- vigor is actually a fun stat. I'm anxious to see all the other ones. i much prefer that type of stuff to plain "ap". i believe in choice/depth/options. | |} ---- as long as i can still keep it as it is now. normal speed = walking pressing Shift = sprinting i don't mind the sprint meter doesn't show and doesn't reduce while i'm out of combat. but i'd like to have the option have the standard walk + hold shift for sprint. it is actually, the standard gameplay for most first person shooter etc. leave the option for the old among us. Edited June 25, 2015 by Avatar111 | |} ---- ---- The burning question is: did the XP gains go through an adjustment, such that you can level purely through dungeons/adventures? Loot drops would stay at the dungeon base level, that's understood. E.g., to get the 5 levels between two group content instances, you have to: - run it 1x to get from level, say 20 to 21, - run it an additional 2x to get from level 21 to 22, - run it an additional 2x to get from 22 to 23, - run it an additional 5x to get from 23 to 24, - run it an additional 6x to get from 24 to 25, where you can access the next group content. So, a total of 16 runs to gain 5 levels. For STL, KV, WotW, at 20min/run that's 320 minutes, or about 4.5 hours, or slightly better than a level per hour. The numbers would need some tweaking for SC, CL, SoTR (1, 2, 2, 3, 4 runs per level at 30min) and SSM (and Protogames and BoB?)(1, 1, 2, 2, 3 at 45min), and especially for Malgrave (1, 1, 1, 1, 2 at an hour per run). The XP is given at bronze level completion, extra and better loot is the reward to silver and gold. | |} ---- Except... we already have a bunch of AMPs that basically do this. Espers and Stalkers get pretty sizeable buffs to moxie and brut when >70% health. | |} ---- Well, the article clearly states the following: "But these changes are not totally set in stone. Even though the game has launched, Donatelli emphasized that this new update will spend time in beta. In fact, the reason the conversion is happening in the fall is precisely to give players time to beta test and offer feedback. And the team plans incorporate that feedback into the final launch of the new F2P version to make sure the changes made were the right ones. And Donatelli says the team expects to make changes: “We expect people to test our transition and be like, ‘We like this more,’ or ‘If you guys do that it will be better,’ and we’re going to make those changes.” So, draw your own conclusions, I suppose. Edited June 25, 2015 by Vanguardian | |} ---- ---- thats all good. it gives option. as an esper and stalker you can double up on it, as a warrior i can have a bit on gear. maybe there is a second stat that works opposite to vigor ? the less health you have the more dmg you do ? (a la "cornered" amp). | |} ---- ---- The existing housing plot limits stay the same. The 2000 number refers to the total amount able to be placed (1000 inside, 1000 outside). Very likely a data storage issue (napkin math places this at significantly worse than the holo wardrobe) so it's very unlikely that we'll see an increase. I'd be happy if I could decide how to allocate decor between the two. (eg. 200 inside, 1800 outside) | |} ---- Do they mean "Primes" as in the red-aura mobs that dot the landscape and keeps things interesting, or are they talking about the Bounty Board Bosses? Edit: or are they talking about Wold Bosses? Edited June 25, 2015 by Vulpixy | |} ---- 1 - No, it will not. 2 - This iteration between raid tiers has taken much longer than we would prefer. However, we felt that other areas of the game deserved a lot more attention in order to get them up to the standards we would prefer. The plan is that future raid tiers do not have gaps in time between them this long. 3 - Tsk, tsk, now. There are plans and ideas and other things not set in stone that you know I can't talk about until we announce them ;D 4 - Not set in stone yet, but we are aware of the unique situation that artifact weapons can cause. We'll have a more defined answer for this once new tiers begin to appear. | |} ---- ---- ---- Something tells me they're just stuff that has been sitting in the concept art style book and hadn't been released before, not anything new and different coming just to China. | |} ---- ADVENTURE TIME please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is already a thread going about making Dungeons more friendly for casuals..... yet you diss adventures and bring in more Dungeons???? | |} ---- ---- ---- the normal dungeons are already being done more friendly for new players, keep the vet dungeons that way (except for QoL changes), from TT post a month ago "We've left the Vet versions unchanged for the most part, but here are a few of the tweaks we're working on: Reducing auto-attack damageWe want the focus for the normal dungeons to be on the unique new mechanics, telegraph system, and interrupt armor--rather than the current rather strict gear checks. As such, reducing AA damage lowers the gearing requirements for Tanks and Healers. Many players don't have good full sets of Support gear while leveling and this helps give Pug groups more margin for error. Adding Holocrypts next to every bossBc https://www.youtube....h?v=otXGqU4LBEI Lowering time-to-completes for the dungeonsSome of the dungeons turned out to be a bit longer than we'd prefer, so we're going to make a few changes to try and speed them up a bit. Runspeed buffs in a few locations in Swordmaiden and Kel Voreth Basepop adjustments so that there are fewer 'required' pulls, and players can instead pick and choose which packs to pull based upon which optional objectives they have to complete Several other tweaks--such as indirect time-savers like greatly increasing the speed of the post-Bosun Octog platform ride and having Mordechai and Laveka's vignette start earlier It's been suggested elsewhere, but incentivizing max-level players to participate in Normal dungeons is also something we'd like to do. However, it won't happen for the next drop so remains on the wishlist for now." | |} ---- ... -_- Wat. Wait, source? Where are folk getting information on a China release? edit Nevermind, found the thread. AUGH. Edited June 25, 2015 by Naunet | |} ---- I don't really have a problem with exclusive items for a different region/market. Games do it all the time, and we'll end up with our own stuff too. | |} ---- Except it's always the Asian market getting the good looking stuff. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- \o/ it's something! but what about the ressstttttttt? I need to look cute with asian eyes and panda outfit/mount and such! I never quite understood the excluding things for certain regions behaviour. Edited June 25, 2015 by Tuff | |} ---- already asked that on twitter, waiting impatient for a response | |} ---- ---- ---- I have a huge problem with it. It is one thing to have different pay models and handling of content in the sense of cultural sensitivities and practices(such as the way in which enchanting is different). Game content like facial customization, pets, hairstyles, and anything else that is a gameplay element or graphical asset should never be exclusive to one region. You actually harm your playerbase by doing so, but you have nothing to lose by being rid of that exclusiveness and I don't know of any decent game that makes content outside of regional promotions(keyword) region exclusive. I'm actually frightened that you'd be fine with that... That art showcasing female human exile wearing what is currently a cassian only style has actually been something people have asked for since the beginning and I will be furious if that is China only along with any other customization. I'll wait for details, but may whatever gods have mercy on Carbines souls if they locked that stuff to China... | |} ---- But this is done *all* the time. Look at WoW or ArcheAge or Black Desert... these multi-territory games (and others, obvs). Heck, Nissan sells cars here they don't sell overseas and vice-versa. And Ford. And all of them! It all is about tweaking to appeal to a certain market or region that will respond... it's a hook to get them in. I understand the desire to have it all, believe me, but I just feel like folks think this is unprecedented but it isn't. | |} ---- ---- I've not said it has not nor will happen in other games and having been a WoW player I fully recognize the exclusive pets, which were regional promotional events. As I said those I understand and have no trouble with, but I can't and won't accept that Granok can be a stalker in China, but not the EU, I will not accept that that a non-promotional item was added in a patch in one region and not in another, and I will be angry if Chinese Mordesh woman can be bald yet a NA mordesh woman can't. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yeah, these are the things that concern me most. | |} ---- ---- ---- Maybe they want us all to move to the China (mega)servers. Think about it! Trying to understand the new itemization changes when they are written in chinese will be so HARDCORE! Edited June 26, 2015 by Ildur | |} ---- I never liked the prime mob thing. Not the more powerful mobs, that's a great idea. But the red colouring a normal mob? Why make a beautiful virtual reality game then go and do something ugly like that. Prime mobs should be obvious another way, size, the giant axe sticking out of the bear thingies back, a lot of better ways. City of Heroes had mob size change based on the size of groups in the area . . . like 10 years ago. That was awesome. When you team up 95% of this game gets way to easy | |} ---- ---- ---- Edit: So you mean like Titanfall where you tap the sprint button and it just keeps sprinting until you're out of sprint meter? ----- DO NOT Im saying this loud and clear Carbine DO NOT CUPCAKING DO THIS. You have freaking idea how absolutely irritating this is to have a full speed run outside of combat only to be dropped down into a slow mode when you're in combat. This is annoying as hell in TERA. TERA does exactly this, except you have no real sprinting option and its irritating. Especially how in WildStar we use sprint so much as a way to evade mobs. This is a TERRIBLE idea. You want to give us a QoL buff that affects movement speed? Let us instant mount out of combat. TERA does that too, and it's great. Seriously Donatelli, go play TERA for a week and come back and you'll see EXACTLY what I'm talking about in both instances. We have mounts, not just any mounts, but hoverboards and ground mounts with sprint AND double jumping. This change is going to devalue this attribute in the first place. And it devalues sprinting as part of the mount system too. Do not impliment this change, this is a real pain in the ass attribute to any game that does this, it is not fun. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- I'm just guessing but I imagine if you're sprinting by a mob with your hoverboard and enter combat, you'd just have to mash the Shift key to keep sprinting (and thus start draining your endurance). | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- upvote this one | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- No, it's a ridiculously awful change. And anyone who's ever played TERA will know how irritating it is to get your speed cut when your randomly agro mobs. Having sprint up 100% of the time out of combat devalues sprinting, and devalues movement speed in general, and it devalues the usage of mounts. | |} ---- ---- I know im starting to broken record this right now but, it does this in TERA. You're running a long at max speed and something agros you and "why the hell am I running slower for no reason at all?" IT's really awkward and really irritating. | |} ---- ---- Well, it's a matter of opinions I guess. Personally, I don't think having to continuously press shift while going from AH to rune station in Illium adds anything at all to the gameplay. If you aggro one mob and you get slowed, press shift, problem gone. Solution: Make it optional, everyone happy. Edited June 26, 2015 by Rhob | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- That's not how this system is going to work. | |} ---- This. I rather keep the current system as well. Standard speed for walking and mounts, and if you need that speed boost for whatever reason, use the shift button. | |} ---- Well, enlighten me then. | |} ---- If you read the post, Meaning as long as your character is not engaged in combat, you will be sprinting. Infinate endless sprint. And if you get into combat only then will sprinting work as it does now, with resource bar. So if someone choses the option to have the system stay as it is vs someone who utilizes the new change, the person using a the old system will have limited out if combat sprint, where as someone using the new one would have infinate sprint. Edit: GW2 does this same in combat slowdown as well, but to a much less noticable degree. For WildStar, obviously this would be incredibly noticeable getting knocked out of your always on sprint. Uploading video examples atm. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- Exactly this. If sprint is perma-on. In combat movement will just feel "alien" and unresponsive compared to movement before the pull. Unsure what to think about the stat changes yet. I hope well get more clarification about it soon :-) I dont think there is much reason to rage about it untill we know it will be an improvement or not. The dissappearing of the milestones might actually be a good thing. Really psyched that the china stuff won't be region locked ( if those tweets are correct :p )! And the housing stuff sounds really really amazing! Any news about the loyalty rewards or omnibits store yet? Would love some intel about that.. | |} ---- Well, precisely my point. If people want to use the shift key to sprint, best solution is to let them do it with unlimited endurance out of combat (as opposed to perma-sprint via toggle). Then they will have the choice of when to sprint and when not to. I don't think sprint serves any purpose out of combat, there's no point in having to manage a resource when you're just trying to get from one point to another outside any kind of combat. I'm completely fine if this perma-sprinting toggle only worked while mounted. But then again, that's only my opinion. | |} ---- You're not understanding the disconnect here. You want it an option, when in reality the issue will make it not a viable option. Meaning either all or none. Do you really think anyone is going to be that dumb to not use the infinite sprint? Think about it. No the best option is to leave the system alone, as is. Because as many others have stated including myself We have active examples of this system in both GW2 and TERA, and it does exactly this. Infinite sprint, and when you go into combat, your character slows down to a standard walk speed. Which is strange, awkward, and makes the incombat movespeed feel slow and clunky. Extra speed should be a bonus, not a standard. Sprint definitely serves a purpose outside of combat, platforming is one aspect, which people utilize for their housing plots. Animations are another thing. What logical reason is there for a character to be slowed down in combat? There really isn't one, it's ass backwards considering all logic and reason. You get into a fight, you're supposed to move faster, not slower. It's already irritating in PVE to get dazed and go from sprinting to half walking, it's only going to make a smooth operating system, a more clunky and less fluid experience. Infinite sprint devalues mounts as well. Video Examples TERA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGArYfZspWk Guild Wars 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJ5Rae-QNw | |} ---- I agree with this. I think the major issue would be when transitioning to combat the game will suddenly feel slow. Where if sprint was a button still you wouldn't feel a instant speed drop, as you know your using the sprint button. | |} ---- ---- If this is the issue not to allow perma-sprint as a toggle, I personally don't find it as bad as people are saying tbh. And I can't see why perma-sprint would devaluate mounts at all. Normalize then the mounted speed, get rid of mounted sprint out of combat and make sprint a combat only resource, this way you won't feel slowed down when entering combat. Again, my concern is that endurance management serves no purpose outside combat (apart from racing, I guess), there's absolutely no reason of having to wait for the endurance bar to fill up while running around in Illium/Thayd. | |} ---- ---- What part of Are you missing? We have active examples of this issue. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- ---- ---- Your personal opinion doesn't negate the major problem associated with this potential change. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is, you still need to recognize the associated issues and problems with the system, and that there will be issues that arise from changing such a fundamental system to WildStar's core. Sprinting is a pretty rare mechanic in MMOs to begin with, Vindictus and WildStar are the only MMORPGs I've played personally that I know of that have sprinting mechanics. And Vindictus doesn't have infinite sprint. Infact vindictus turns sprinting off in commonn areas, which helps preserve the value of it in combat. | |} ---- ---- And many showed you examples why its a problem, if you still dont see it so be it. Sprint Meter has uses out of combat, be it exploring / jumping from platform to platform etc... | |} ---- No that's not how that works. Again, refer back to the videos, refer back to what was said. If the game switches to always on sprint when out of combat, it will end up with the same clunky, awkward, devalued combat speed issue as TERA and GW2 has. If they really care about making the out of combat movement quicker and more fluid, the best solution QoL change is to let us instant mount. Like TERA does. Instead of stopping to cast summon for a mount, let us just tap our mount button and insta mount and dismount. That would be a FAR better choice over trying to place combat restriction on sprinting. Double post though, In reality Caydeium, or SOMEONE from the team that is making this change needs to get their butt on the forum and clarify this definition for us properly, because it wasn't exactly clear what it means. NOW if this always on means that you 1. Tap the shift key, and Sprint 2. Tap to stop sprinting 3. If you run out of endurance you stop sprinting 4. tap to sprint again until out of endurence or you tap shift again. Basically a TOGGLE activate on your sprint, then we don't have any issue here. But this needs to be clarified. Edited June 26, 2015 by Chillia | |} ---- ---- No. Because again If you just sprint everywhere, and then you get into combat and you all of the sudden can't sprint all the time, you have the same issue that TERA, GW2, and other games that make you move slower when you get into combat. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- ---- Nothing's bad about that. That's an acceptable change if someone wants to utilize it. Basically that's just a autofire macro. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- And that's acutally how I thought this would work. Toggleable auto sprint. Not perma sprint. Confirmation please? :0 | |} ---- I think perhaps that's what Caydiem was pointing at, but the article kinda says something that counteracts that statement. So yeah, clarification is needed. All in all WildStar has a very fluid and interesting combat and movement system with only one draw back, and I really don't want to end up with that same irritating thorn in the side that drives you nuts when you go back to TERA or GW2 and you realize you get speed penalized for being in combat. I think the only changes that I would personally make would be 1. Remove Daze from PVE interactions. This is really *cupcake* off annoying to be sprinting and have an auto attack make you walk at half speed. This is a really freaking annoying part of the combat system, and if it were up to me it'd be removed 5 drops ago. 2. Let us automount like you can in TERA. I think this is one thing i really miss from TERA when I came to WildStar and go to other MMOs, like WoW is having to cast your mount. It feels much more fluid and action combat designed being able to mount up out of combat in an instant. Let us tap our mount button and instant mount while walking/running (maybe even sprinting) Apologizes to all those who worked on the super cool mounting animations, but it'd be a nice QoL change. Edited June 26, 2015 by FranBunnyFFXII | |} ---- Agreed, I'd like some clarification as well. It sounds like you'll press a button to turn on sprint when you're outside of combat (I'm thinking of TSW here) and then the mechanics will stay as they are when you're inside of combat. I guess that's one way to get around the crazy slow mounts without actually increasing mount speed. Edit: +1 for auto mount outside of combat. Especially with something like a hoverboard, my characters already basically do the animation like they're just pulling it off of their back and jumping on at a full run anyway. Edited June 26, 2015 by phandaal | |} ---- ---- Insta mounting too. Also since we're talking about QoL changes. Everyone has noticed how much we have to hold down the right mouse button in combat, and I've requested this and even made an autohotkey addon to fix this issue, but. Can you, Carbine, please let us use a setting in the game itself to make our MB2(Right mouse button) an Toggle switch? So when you're right clicking on the combat view(not UI elements) with your right mouse button it aim lock toggles your screen? Check my Addon forum post please. My addon works fantastically but It has the issue of needing to be disabled to be able to interact with UI elements properly, so an in game option for this with better support would be a HUGE Quality of Life change that would greatly save the stress on people's hands when playing WildStar. MB2 Toggle native support please. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Sure they have meaning: Insight : apprehending the true nature of a thing, especiallythrough intuitive understanding Moxie : force of character, determination, or nerve Finesse : extreme delicacy or subtlety in action, performance, skill,discrimination, taste, etc. Brutality : savage physical violence; great cruelty. Grit: firmness of character Okay, they're not your average definition you use daily, but they are clearly defined and represent exactly what they do ingame. | |} ---- I'm with you on this one. | |} ---- The stats have a ton of meaning, and they went through a lot of iteration in beta... heck, just looking at the icons that represent each stat. I mean, are we as players that dull that we can't comprehend a simple naming representation of something that fits with the spirit of the game world? WildStar loses part of its identity with every change like this and that's not a good thing. If WildStar has anything, it's a unique personality and identity. And sprinting - you're not supposed to keep it working at max. It was never intended for travel. That's on you. The sprint change has to be rolled back... no question. | |} ---- Same here. Also, I'm happy to think that my bike doesn't get "tired" every few secs. | |} ----